By the co-author of The easy Guide to Your Walt Disney World Visit 2017, from the best-reviewed Disney World guidebook series ever. Paperback available on Amazon here. Kindle version available on Amazon here. PDF version available on Gumroad here.—Disney World Instructions for the First-Time Visitor

A Moderate Disney Vacation Club at Caribbean Beach?

By Dave Shute

(For the first page of this review of Disney’s Caribbean Beach Resort, see this.)


The Beach at Trinidad South from

There’s been speculation about Disney Vacation Club units at Disney’s Caribbean Beach Resort for a while, but the first rumors from people I respect came—so far as I noticed—when Jim Hill and Len Testa discussed the possibility in an August edition of the Disney Dish Podcast.

There were many curious things about this podcast and the one a couple of weeks before, including a claim that Disney had overbuilt hotels, and was using DVC conversions to take out capacity.

In fact, reported capacity utilization at the Disney domestic resorts has been steady or going up quarter over quarter for several years now, and last quarter was at a world-class 83% (the national average was around 65%) — up 5 percentage points over the same quarter prior year.

Moreover, the more recent DVC conversions have added deluxe capacity, not cut it. The most recent DVC projects have added deluxe capacity for more than 5000 people/night:

  • The combination of actions at the Animal Kingdom Lodge added net nightly capacity of more than 2500 people (taking out capacity of 300 at Jambo House by subtracting rooms and replacing them with on-average higher bay DVC spaces, and adding capacity for 2900 people at Kidani).
  • Bay Lake Tower added a net of nightly capacity for about 1700 people, taking out about 1250 people worth of space in the North Garden Wing and adding back space for 2900 or so in Bay Lake Tower.
  • The Villas at the Grand Floridian was not a conversion, but simply an addition of capacity of about 1,000 people.
  • The Polynesian conversion—if the converted longhouses are solely studios, as is expected—will also add capacity via the bungalows, on the order of a couple of hundred people.

Now it is true that all the net growth is on the DVC side, as hundreds of rooms have shifted out of the deluxe inventory from the Animal Kingdom Lodge, Contemporary Resort, and Polynesian and into the DVC inventory.

But that does not mean deluxe “capacity” has gone down. First, the DVC rooms are available to the general public as deluxe spaces for rent, and second, DVC point purchases are economic substitutes for yearly rentals of deluxe rooms. Over the long term, a bed at a DVC resort is simply a pre-paid deluxe bed.

Rather, it hints at the short term economic value of DVC sales to the Walt Disney Company. Take the Polynesian conversion. At rack rates, WDW can clear in revenue for each room at the Poly about $200,000 per year at max occupancy by treating it as a hotel room. At likely Polynesian DVC point cost and studio point charts, selling that same capacity to DVC contract buyers will generate one-time revenue of almost $1.1 million—plus even more for annual dues to cover operating and upkeep costs. This is a much better year for that room…

So I can stop there…but there’s more. The more of this capacity Disney can sell to DVC members, the more it has laid off the risk of future swings in demand for hotel rooms. DVC members have to pay their dues…but they don’t have to use their points. This is just upside for Disney, as in effect the future room charge is pre-paid through the point purchase, upkeep is paid annually, and, if points are unused, Disney can in effect double-charge for the room by putting it on the cash market any nights it is unoccupied by point holders.

Now beyond the medium term it is likely better to have a room on the balance sheet and be able to charge for it year after year than to take a one-time payment of 6 times yearly revenues for it and have it not be on the balance sheet.

But from an income statement point of view, monetizing DVC rooms works fine so long as there is a sufficient flow of DVC contracts to sell to make year to year comparisons OK. (The importance of this issue was highlighted in this month’s earnings call, where the lack of units to sell compared to last year’s sales of contracts for the Villas at the Grand Floridian was explicitly addressed.)

Testa and Hill mentioned Caribbean Beach as the possible first moderate DVC property. This is a very interesting concept, especially if moderate DVC points are in a new/different/lower class, and as a result hard to use for deluxe DVC spaces (as otherwise current point holders would complain about new competition for deluxe DVC spaces without new deluxe capacity).

The specific area they discussed for a Caribbean Beach DVC spot was near Buena Vista Boulevard—e.g. they noted the possibility of a new seven story tower with views of IllumiNations, and perhaps even boat service to Epcot and on to Disney’s Hollywood Studios.

Map Disney's Caribbean Beach Resort

A look at the map shows that this is certainly possible, perhaps in the wetlands between Aruba and Barbados, or perhaps even by tearing down the Customs House, replacing its function in new space near Old Port Royale, and building there.

Trinidad South View Disney's Caribbean Beach from

But I’m more intrigued by Moderate DVC in the blank piece of property across Barefoot Bay from the pirate rooms at Trinidad South (shown above).

But what? Build paired, connecting Moderate DVC Pirate Studios, with a king bed and full kitchen studio on one side of the connecting door, and a queen/sofa/murphy bed studio on the other side.

Made Up Concept Floor Plan for DVC at Caribbean Beach from

See the concept image. Inspired on one side by half of a Music family suite, and on the other side by a Villas at the Wilderness Lodge studio, this is not precisely to scale (there’s more floor space than it indicates) and, more to the point, is entirely made up, but it communicates my idea adequately.

These rooms could be rented separately (though there might be occupancy issues with the king/kitchen side), or be rented as a connected pair.

The connected pair, with a king, capacity for seven, two baths, and a full (though tiny) kitchen, would be clearly better than a family suite at the values, but also much smaller and more cramped than a eight or nine person Two Bedroom Villa at a current DVC deluxe resort–Villas that have at least 50% more floor space.

This puts a connecting pair in the right straddling niche for a Moderate DVC space…

Now, let’s be clear: With this floor plan, I am not reporting a rumor. I’ve simply made it up as an example of what’s possible in a Moderate DVC space using the current footprints of Pirate rooms…

Disney could start with such a building across from Trinidad South, and if demand justified, build multi-story towers with similar spaces on the undeveloped area across Barefoot Bay. With taller buildings and elevators, there’s easily room there for a thousand studios there…

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The 2017 easy Guide

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1 Amanda { 01.05.15 at 11:00 pm }

When you stayed in the refurbished queen room with Murphy bed, did you book via disney’so website? I am seeing availability for my family of 6 (including one child under 3) for may, but it shows “2 doubles.” None of the double bed rooms have a Murphy to meet our occupancy needs, so would I be guaranteed a refurbished room?

2 Dave { 01.06.15 at 7:41 am }

Amanda I booked via Disney’s website. Right now the website is not updated to show the queen rooms, and the guess is it won’t be until the refurb is complete. Any room you book for 5 plus the infant will be a refurbed queen room.

3 Monaziah Smith { 01.22.15 at 10:57 pm }

Hi, I’m visiting Disney’s Caribbean beach resort may 27. Do you know if any of the perfered room are done, or will be completed by then?( meaning refuburbished)

4 Dave { 01.23.15 at 1:24 pm }

Monaziah, I have heard that work on the preferred rooms has started in Martinique, and will know for sure late next week when I’ll be at WDW and will poke around. So ask again say Jan 31 or Feb 1?

5 tryphena Kimball { 01.28.15 at 10:15 pm }

I booked the pirate room for my pirate loving son for our last night. Do they help you get your luggage to the room? Do they have transportation?
Also he is doing the kids pirate cruise, is that in the area marked on the map as cruise transportation?

6 Dave { 01.29.15 at 7:30 am }

Tryphena, yes there is bell service to help with your luggage. The “cruise” you see on the map is for the DIsney Cruise ships–for the pirate cruise, the meet up is near the main pool. Ask a cast member for the exact location when you are there.

7 Christine Lagun { 02.10.15 at 4:17 am }

Hi Dave, stumbled across your site when researching car – what a great find and congrats for such an extensive review, best I’ve seen. Mt question – we are visiting from UK July 30 to Aug 13 and we are requesting two rooms with connecting door – will these rooms have a Murphy bed in them?

8 Dave { 02.10.15 at 7:45 am }

Hi Christine and thanks!! There’s no way to say for sure, since many rooms don’t have the murphy bed.

9 Robin { 02.13.15 at 12:21 am }

I just booked for May 17,for a mom/daughter get away,this will be my first time ever staying at a Disney Resort.From what I gathered reading your review I should choose Aruba or Jamaica,corner room, first floor or second? Are there standard rooms in the other villages?

10 Dave { 02.13.15 at 8:11 am }

Robin all the villages except for the Pirate rooms in Trinidad South have the same assortment of rooms. Jamaica and Aruba are more convenient, without paying the upgrade price for a preferred room.

11 Sharon { 04.28.15 at 5:16 am }

I have a water/pool room booked , there will be myself, my sister, 17 son, 14 daughter.
I would so much love to have a room with the murthy bed, so my daughter could sleep in that & my sister and I will share, otherwise, I will have to sleep with my 17 son. Do you think if I call they will give it to me?

12 Dave { 04.28.15 at 8:11 am }

Sharon, no guarantees, but if one is available, you have a good chance…

13 Donna { 06.21.15 at 5:38 pm }


Do you know if all of the preferred rooms have had their refurb?

14 Dave { 06.22.15 at 9:15 am }

Donna, yes!

15 Mandy { 07.19.15 at 11:37 pm }

Thank you for all the great info!! I am hoping to stay at the Caribbean Beach with my family in February 16. My oldest daughter LOVES Nemo- but it looks like when they refurbed these rooms, they no longer have the Nemo look to them. Is that right?

16 Dave { 07.20.15 at 10:30 am }

Hi Mandy, yup, no more Nemo…

17 Joel { 09.15.15 at 2:50 pm }

How does your recommendation for buildings change with the temporary closure of the foot bridge? I have 2 families (9 ppl total) staying in 2 rooms mid-October 15. We were aiming for 45 or 51, but should we now look at non-preferred Martinique or 41/42 in Jamaica? Great book and site.

18 Dave { 09.16.15 at 11:29 am }

Hi Joel and thanks!!

There’s so many added buses and such that the bridge closure is not a huge deal. Jamaica is still a good choice (41/42 are further from the bus stop than say 44, so you have to balance that vs how much you plan to be at the main pool and dining), as are the non-preferred sections of Martinique. Aruba is less good than it was before…

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